A Whites-Only Town: Extremism, Identity, and the Psychology of Exclusion
Wit & Reason with alex and DR. Alexis
A group called Return to the Land (RTTL) is creating a whites-only settlement in the Ozarks, requiring members to prove “European ancestry,” identify as straight, Christian, and exclude Jewish people, Black people, immigrants, and LGBTQ+ individuals. This isn’t just racism—it’s an organized attempt to build a high-control community using legal loopholes, cult-like psychology, and social fear.
In this episode of Wit and Reason, therapist couple Alex Honigman, LCSW and Dr. Alexis Moreno, Clinical Community Psychologist, break down viral videos responding to RTTL and use peer-reviewed psychological and sociological research to explain:
What motivates people to join exclusionary groups
How identity threats, fear, and authoritarianism shape extremist movements
Why RTTL may meet many of the criteria for cults and high-control groups
The dangers of pseudo-legal structures like PMAs (Private Membership Associations)
How racism, patriarchy, and paranoia form social engineering projects
Whether you're curious, concerned, or confused—this episode explains why this movement is dangerous and what it reveals about the deeper mental health and cultural fractures in America today.
Resources from the Show
Access Mental Health Therapy and Coaching
Keep on Actively Learning and Growing: Trainings & On-Demand Courses
Listen to Dr. Alexis’ Mental Health Lessons & Meditations: Aura Health Guest Pass
Reviewed Content - Creator Credits:
Nathan Ramos- Park- @nathanramospark on TikTokTrail Talks- @sabronx777 on TikTok
Jeffrey Meltzer- @therapytothepoint on TikTok
Gen Jones- @genjonesgayguy on Tiktok
Aaron Parnas- @aaronparnas1 on TikTok
Jordan Smalls- @disfellowdipped on TikTok
Jusnene- @jusnene2.0 on TikTok
Raeon Artez- @raeonartez on TikTok
Bran Flakezz- @bran__flakezz on TikTok
Dwight Thomas- @therealdthomasforreal on TikTok
Daijne Jones- @naenae_jonez3 on TikTok
Host
Dr. Alexis Moreno - Wit & Reason
ALEXIS MORENO, PSYD, MA, MS - SHE/HER
PSYCHOLOGIST, HEALTH CORRESPONDENT, Speaker, & Founder
Dr. Alexis (she/her) utilizes the powerful impact awareness, education, & opportunity have on mental health. She mindfully creates fun & supportive experiences for her speaking and media audience and private clients to safely explore their true values, learn new healthy practices, & take action steps toward living authentically.
She has a Doctorate in Clinical Community Psychology, a Master of Arts in Marriage & Family Therapy, & a Bachelor of Science in both Television Broadcasting & Psychology. With over 16 years of experience in media & psychology, she aims to make mental health relatable & accessible for all through her coaching, consultation, & media outreach.
Dr. Alexis provides media, speaking, & mental health consultation services.
Book a complimentary consultation with Dr. Alexis today!
Learn more about Dr. Alexis Moreno’s services:
Connect with Dr. Alexis on LinkedIn
Alex Honigman - Wit & Reason
Alex Honigman, LICSW, MA- HE/ HIM
Clinical Director, Speaker, Therapist, & Executive Coach
Alex (he/him) enjoys the relationship between the psyche and society. Having never wanted to pick a side in the nature versus nurture debate, he pursued degrees in both Psychology and Sociology and finally a Master’s of Social Work with an emphasis on clinical interventions. He has worked as an educator for non-profits and lecturer for Universities. Starting as a therapist for survivors of trauma, moving on to perpetrators, and spending significant time as a Licensed Clinical Social Worker at a Forensic State Hospital. Alex continues to emphasize culture as a key component to effective therapy and the changing of systems (organizations and businesses). Whether this be through music, film, tv, art, comics, games, memes or other aspects of popular (or sometimes unpopular) culture. Utilizing an individual’s cultural values to make for a more meaningful individualized therapeutic intervention.
Learn more about Alex Honigman’s services:
Therapist, Mental Health Coordinator/Consultant, Entrepreneur
Book a session with Alex
Connect with Alex on LinkedIn
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Episode Transcription
Dr. Alexis: We have some very special content to review today.
Alex: Do we?
Dr. Alexis: It's very special.
Alex: Is that special?
Dr. Alexis: Yes. I don't know if you've been keeping up with the news
Alex: a little bit. A little bit. A little bit, little bit of news, and I actually
Dr. Alexis: don't know how much the news is covering the sub.
Alex: Yeah, I don't know either. Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: This week on therapy or trash, we're reacting to.
Alex: A whites only town forming Arkansas. It's not a parody. It's called Return to the Land. They say it's about ancestry and traditional values, but what they're really building is a fortress of racial exclusion.
Dr. Alexis: Uh, and what's dangerous isn't just. The racism, right?
It's the psychological manipulation, the social withdrawal, and the emotional targeting used to draw people in. Mm-hmm. This isn't just ignorance, it's extremists dressed up as. Community
Wit and reason with Alex and Dr. Alexis, where real talk meets real growth. Diving deep into relationships and breakthroughs, live insights, expert advice, and your voice in the mix.
Let's build better lives together.
Dr. Alexis: I need to manage my emotional response. 'cause community building is really big and important to me. I love community. I'm a community psychologist, not just any psychologist. Yes. But community is so incredibly important. We talk about it a lot on the show. Yeah. How to be intentional with, with your friends and, and aligning with people who share similar values.
And this is kind of like. The dark side of all.
Alex: That's nice. All of
Dr. Alexis: that.
Alex: Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: That's why the sound bites don't always work. 'cause people can manipulate. Yeah. Our healthy, beautiful, yes. Social community psychology into something really, really hot, dangerous mess. As I was learning on the news mm-hmm. About this group.
Okay. Called Return to the Land. It's a members only group and they're focusing on just only white Christian. I'm very
Alex: confused. 'cause they're, they're either like Amish, nor are they native Amer indigenous folk.
Dr. Alexis: Right. So it's like
Alex: returning to what land go
Dr. Alexis: and, and it's kind of like a take on, um, go
Alex: back to Europe.
Dr. Alexis: It's kinda like on that take on like, like back to the land. Mm-hmm. It's kinda like a, a homesteading kind of movement. Mm-hmm. It's returned to the land and it reminded me we've actually done some homesteading. We have to a certain extent. You know, we had internet the entire time we did internet. So true homesteaders would like disagree with that, but we've done some rule of living.
Yeah. In the Appalachian Mountains in West Virginia. Yeah. For about like two years. Yeah. We were really immersed in that community and.
Alex: Cultural
Dr. Alexis: groups and live
Alex: and work in building
Dr. Alexis: drama
Alex: happens
Dr. Alexis: in a small world town. Are we
Alex: the trauma? No, we're not the, we're not the drama. We're not the drama.
Dr. Alexis: But while I was trying to learn more about this return, the Land group, it reminded me of an experience that I had, what the local in West Virginia while we were living out there, and she was this sweet, older woman.
Who disclosed to me in our and and just meeting one another and somehow came up in conversation that she's proudly the person in her church that sits in the back of the church with a gun ready for any kind of threat or attack that might happen in their white Christian, yeah. Rural church in the mountains of WestBridge.
Sure.
Dr. Alexis: And I was like, okay. But I was like processing like. Threats from what? Hmm? Like what? What? What are you a target of? Uh, as a, a white Christian churchgoer.
Alex: There has been some church shootings and things like that, but it was not,
Dr. Alexis: I looked it up. Yeah, of course.
Alex: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Alexis: And then, so according to FBI hate crime statistics.
Mm-hmm. Um, not just my own knowledge base, what I know of. Yeah. And the studies from the Department of Homeland Security, NP research that attacks on religious institutions in the US more commonly target. Jewish institutions.
Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: Okay. Cigna cogs of schools?
Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: Black churches.
Alex: Yes, for sure.
Dr. Alexis: And, um, Muslim mosques.
Alex: Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: Okay. So I was like, what? Where, why are they so concerned to the point that they like, have people strategically placed in our church, like. Yeah. Kin with like guns on them ready to go, ready to attack. When the white Christian churches are the least targeted in part due to their, they're a dominant cultural status.
Alex: Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: No one needs to or necessarily wants to like mess with 'em.
Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: And those who are attacked are those who are perceived as the lower otherness groups and they're typically targeted by extremist groups.
Alex: Yeah. And
Dr. Alexis: so it was just such an interesting exchange to have with someone. Like all of the questions in my mind were internal.
'cause I just met this person and I was like, okay, cool. You like, good for you. Good for you. You have a skillset that you're proud of. You're the protector in the group. Okay.
Alex: Safety oriented
Dr. Alexis: psychologically, I get that. But like socially, the paranoia.
Alex: If they feel that way and they feel that it's necessary, then they get to step in and do that for them because they have the skillset to do that.
I don't know. It creates some semblance of like if you are paranoid, that you're then creates safety for others for that.
Dr. Alexis: Right. Fear.
Alex: Fearful. Fearful. I wouldn't wanna say paranoid. I don't wanna say fearful
Dr. Alexis: and, but I was, well, it goes from fearful to paranoia because there's no actual threat.
Alex: Yeah. No, but I mean,
Dr. Alexis: there's some groups,
Alex: but I feel like paranoia
Dr. Alexis: based on research.
Jewish,
Alex: yeah.
Dr. Alexis: Black churches. Muslim mosques.
Alex: Yeah. They have security.
Dr. Alexis: They have security. It makes sense because they're actively targeted and Yeah. And there's, there's active violence and crimes against them. So we're gonna be diving into this whole idea of perceived threats. Yeah.
The
Dr. Alexis: paranoia around that versus.
Actual reality based fear responses.
Alex: I think my hesitancy to say the word paranoia isn't really, because it tends to be a symptomology around something. So it's like it's now diagnosed in some way, shape, or form. Mm-hmm. Versus like just being understood as like, this is fear. That is actually unsubstantiated fear.
Do you know what I mean? Like I feel like there's a difference between like, paranoia. I feel like it gives people a level of like conspiracy theory esque type of like delusional paranoid. Mm-hmm. Versus like say unsubstantiated fear. And this isn't just pathology, which I think that there are, they're delusional or high, these are other choices that they're making, I think, that are detrimental.
Mm-hmm. But are, I wouldn't call them paranoia because. I don't think it's an imbalance. I think it's 'cause I tend to think of paranoia as like part of the mental illness part.
Dr. Alexis: So you would say like your hesitancy to, to label their response or reactions as paranoia is because?
Alex: Schizophrenics have paranoid and they have no choice.
Dr. Alexis: The free will aspects of it.
Alex: Yeah. They have no choice but to be paranoid
Dr. Alexis: versus the willful ignorance Yes or
Alex: yes
Dr. Alexis: aspect
Alex: of it. Yeah. I like the idea of like, of unsubstantiated beer.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah.
Alex: Yeah. I just, my thought I just throwing out there in the world. I just, yep. Yep.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah. So, but to me it is
Alex: like
Dr. Alexis: delusional.
Oh yeah. Yeah. That's fair. A lot of it's, and then what happens when you have a group that all believes in the same delusion or for whatever reason, psychological imbalance or chemical imbalance or otherwise, everyone with similar paranoia comes together as a group.
Mm-hmm. Armed, shared, shared
Alex: delusional disorders.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah.
Alex: That's a thing. And where does that does that? They're very rare, shared delusional disorders. Very rare. They're very cool.
Dr. Alexis: So we're gonna be diving into all of this paranoia conspiracy frameworks as we dive into viral clips about that whole return to the lamp. LC apparently. Ooh, nice. Because how else are you gonna get away with, uh, gotta make
money with your religion?
Well, they're not, I mean, they're Christian, but they, it's not their own religion. Mm-hmm. We'll, we'll dive into it. Sure. So all of this content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. This is not therapy. Not
Alex: therapy.
Dr. Alexis: So not
Alex: a doctor.
Dr. Alexis: We're gonna be sharing
Alex: You're a doctor.
Dr. Alexis: Yes. But we're not, I'm not your doctor.
Yeah. We're gonna be sharing some viral videos related to all this. We're gonna be critiquing some things, commenting on all of the things, and you'll be able to find the links to the original creators in our show notes, either on youtube.com/at wit and reason, or wherever you get your podcast. Or at reason.com/dc Radio, you could find all of our archive shows as well.
Do that too. That's fine. With all the links come back. So are you ready? I am for this excite.
Alex: Can you dig it? Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: Just in case you haven't fallen the news or you haven't heard this through, through your news outlet, we're gonna get a good understanding of what the hell is going on here with this quote unquote return to the land group.
Alex: What you're hearing is a surface level news, but what we're seeing is a textbook example of social identity theory and ideological isolation at work.
We ask news right now. Heads up. If you live in Missouri, a whites only group called returning to the land is trying to expand and build a whites only community in Missouri.
Right now its base is in northern Arkansas, but soon it's going to try to expand to an area near Springfield, Missouri, according to the Hill, in their community, members are evaluated based on European ancestry. You have to be white. Jews are not allowed in the community as well. They currently have about 160 acres of land in northern Arkansas, and now they wanna expand just outside of Springfield, Missouri, and soon to all 50 states in the United States.
The co-founder of the group said, quote, we wanna ensure that white Americans who value their ancestry will have the ability to live among like-minded people in the future if they choose to do so regardless of demographic changes. This is real. And it's happening right now in the United States of America, and not enough people are talking about it.
So I will spread the words more people know, especially if folks living near Springfield, Missouri.
Dr. Alexis: So social identity theory explains the psychological appeal of ethnic essentialism.
Alex: Woo. Okay. I like those words.
Dr. Alexis: Doesn't make it right or healthy. No. Kind of explains a a little bit of what's going on there.
I mean, there's a lot of factors involved, I think.
Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: But when we're looking at social identity theory, it explains how people derive their self-worth from the groups. Or group that they belong to. And so when that identity feels threatened, like what the creator was talking about, any kind of like demographic change.
Yeah. That's what's been going on in the states especially.
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Alexis: People may gravitate toward radical in group protection.
Alex: Yeah. Right. Change makes people afraid. Afraid people need to let see, seek whatever's, commonality, commonalities then used to them exclude. Yeah, societally, like this is all reactionary community building.
So forming separatist enclaves, like the little things in response to increased racial and cultural diversity. It claims to preserve culture, but it kind of operates like exit based politics. Exit based politics is a concept from political economist Albert o Hirshman, uh, in his 1970s book. Exit voice and loyalty.
Hirschman outlined how individuals respond to dissatisfaction in institutions or systems. So instead of participating in diverse public life, the group they retreat, they move to like an isolated space. Mm-hmm. Like go and hide on their own. I'm gonna go to my room. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then they frame this as withdrawals that like a free, so you'll get this in militias, you'll hear this all sorts of other places that are not.
Really useful. Uh, and they're usually pretty extreme. And they create more. Extreme is,
Dr. Alexis: yeah. But is it even really freedom if you're trapped within this group?
Alex: That's why it's, you know, ironic. Yeah, that's, yeah.
Dr. Alexis: You're giving yourself less and less freedoms. Mm-hmm. And I don't know exactly what the rules are.
I understand that once you become a member, there's a little membership fee. And with the idea that you're gonna be paying like around six grand for some. Part of the lot of land.
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Alexis: Um, and I don't know what the rules are as far as like you being there, you building there, you live in and existing there, what you need to contribute.
And I'm, I'm especially curious about what happens if. You don't follow those rules? Yeah. Like what are the consequences or punishments involved or exel from this group? Especially if you have like invested money and then maybe infrastructure.
Alex: I wonder if anyone's kicked out. Try and find that out.
Dr. Alexis: I mean, this group was founded in 23.
Mm-hmm. And they're kind of. Getting started
Alex: going strong. So I don't
Dr. Alexis: know if, if that's even been a thing, you'll hear more people's responses and reactions to all this, but when I was watching this in the news, I was like, how is this even legal?
Alex: That's a good question.
Dr. Alexis: And apparently it's an LLC that bought it.
And so since it's an LLC, then they can create this private membership association. And then the concept is, well, these. These people who are part of this LLC who partially own this land, okay. Are consenting members to whatever rules we come up with, even if it's discrimination against others.
Alex: Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: So then they're trying to find this loophole around all these civil rights acts.
So very special effort to try to figure out how to manipulate the legal system in order to operate.
You're, you're racism. You're a white cult, right?
Dr. Alexis: So they're trying to shield themselves from anti-discrimination laws like the Fair Housing Act, which prohibits exclusion based on race, religion, et
Alex: cetera.
Yeah. So then you're not buying property or that's why they're doing the membership. Okay. Right. Unless they even own their property, then. Exactly. I wonder if it's like a compound, like a church or a cold.
Dr. Alexis: They're trying to redefine discrimination as private preference. And then historically speaking, I mean, you probably are familiar with this as you know, as you've specialized in sociology, this longstanding white nationalist strategy.
Yeah. I mean, trying to get those loopholes to create whites only Christian only, no Jews. No. Yeah. I mean, no
Alex: white supremacy has been a thing for a very long time. It continues to kind of make sure that they try and increase the civil rights or, or circumvent, navigate the, uh, the laws of civil rights.
Mm-hmm. For just. White folk.
Dr. Alexis: There's just so much effort put into these zones of exception.
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Alexis: The thing about groups like this is that it's exploiting the emotional vulnerabilities, like uncertainty, fear of loss, and even this odd nostalgia Yeah. Of segregated times.
Alex: It's perceived fear around what difference looks like.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah.
Alex: So say you grew up in a white neighborhood and now your kids are growing up in neighborhoods that actually have more equity in them. You, you're already kind of fearful around what that looks like because you've been born and raised into this racist paradigm, and then you maintain that racist paradigm.
So then you then get fearful and nostalgic at the time, whereas, oh, what is it? Why is it so different? Why are world my white folk at
Dr. Alexis: Yeah.
Alex: Nostalgia around something in which felt comfortable or safe for you because you're too fragile to expand.
Dr. Alexis: And then you go on living life through this confirmation bias.
Yeah. If your narrative is that people who are different than me are bad or dangerous mm-hmm. Or violent or a threat, then you're gonna watch the news, you know, and you're gonna pick up the news stories. It's scary. Or you're gonna hear from your neighbors. Mm-hmm. Um, everything that confirms that bias.
Yeah. Groups like this are ex. Loing, the perceived cultural loss and existential anxiety to build in-group loyalty and fear-based belonging sounds like a lot of fun.
Alex: It's a party right there. Lot of fear. That's a party. Yeah, I don't wanna go to that cook count.
Dr. Alexis: So members are not just joining a community, they're entering a closed belief system that rewards paranoia.
I'll
Dr. Alexis: stick to that word.
Yeah, go for it. And
Dr. Alexis: then potentially punishes, dissent. I'm sure there's some kind of consequence. What if that's
super? What if you have like this
Dr. Alexis: heteronormative family with these kids and then your kids grow up and they're like, Hey, we're gay, and then you're not
Alex: allowed to be gay.
Dr. Alexis: What happens?
Alex: Well, they, they cure you. You know? Or someone, it's a choice. Someone comes out, well, well they're there. They think it's a choice and they, it's a preference. This is a
Dr. Alexis: sarcasm, by the way. Yeah. This is not their
Alex: I don't, no, not, no, no, no. They, they, I'm telling you. Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: So that was a clip from, um, from, at.
He's the
Alex: best. Aaron, you're awesome. We love what you do. He does a lot of news coverage. He's a busy life.
Dr. Alexis: I dunno how he manages. You can find him on TikTok and he has
Alex: really good choices. Sour candy Instagram. Really good choice. In sour candy, he does because you know he He is, yeah.
Dr. Alexis: What kind?
Alex: He likes the same sour strauss that I used to really yeah's.
Good stuff. Have fun with that. Well,
Dr. Alexis: you can,
Alex: that's Before I go, can you,
Dr. Alexis: before you go into your. Forties and out to eat healthier and be more of an adult.
Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: All right, so now that we have a good understanding, like what the hell is going on with this group? Mm-hmm. This whites own whites Christian hero normative group that's going on, let's get some viral videos of people who are commenting.
On this reality, what is happening out there in the US in 2025? So this satire is more than a joke. It's a therapeutic response to the burnout of being marginalized
whites only Christian, only straight only communities is the best fucking idea. It's actually the only fucking good idea I've ever heard.
Come outta Maga. I am all for it. In fact, I think there should be an executive order declaring that all straight white Christians have to build their own communities. Put a wall around it. Make the MAGA hat your flag. Kirk Cameron and Scott Beo can be in charge of arts and entertainment and call it mayonnaise land.
We don't fucking wanna be around you people. Create your own fashion, your own culture, your own cuisine, and leave us the hell alone. We don't wanna hear your complaints when there's no one to do the manual labor. We don't want to hear the complaints from the women when there's no one to do your hairs, your nail, your makeup.
And we certainly don't want to be your support system when you're finding out all your husbands are out. Well, we know what they're all out doing. You'll figure it out soon enough. I mean that. So y'all go create your mayonnaise land and leave us alone while we're out here enjoying Rainbow toia mayonnaise, land
Alex: man land.
I love that. It is so good. Mayonnaise land.
Dr. Alexis: That's your, that's your main takeaway
Alex: for that. Yes. That was my main take. That was, but I was, that was my main take.
Dr. Alexis: So I believe this, this creator's part of queer community. Yes. And it. It's flipping that power.
Alex: Oh, for sure. Right. I mean, like, you know, describe the dollar group as segregating itself and then talk about the absurdity of it all, and Unsu and how unsustainable that idea is.
Oh God, it's so, yeah, it's, yeah, it's a good critique. It's an excellent critique on how much culture and economic and emotional labor, white supremacist systems steal from the people they exclude. Right? Like it's, it's, it's a mess.
Dr. Alexis: And here's the thing. Laughter reduces psychological stress and restores agency.
So,
so laugh away.
Dr. Alexis: So laugh away and have fun with it. This is actually a form of radical acceptance. I mean, just acknowledging the absurdity of supremacy.
Alex: I like, I like that just,
Dr. Alexis: and refusing to play its game. It's like, all right, you wanna go like, create your little town.
Alex: Yeah, let's make all of you go do that.
Let's make them. I like, I like it. It makes it, let's make it rural. So,
Dr. Alexis: no, I'm not sure how much this community has to do with mega Exactly. I mean. I don't know. I see similarities in their, in their messaging, branding, um, especially their idealization of Hitler.
Hmm. That's something
Dr. Alexis: that the co-founders have made statements to.
Oh God. Yeah. So, um, have fun with this out there in the world. I mean, this is kind of laughable. Yes. This whole experiment.
Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: Particularly because we look historically at how the, and we'll talk more about this, like how these, these groups tried to mm-hmm. Create exile themselves from society and create their own, own white specific
Alex: maise land.
Dr. Alexis: Sure. I don't think we can use that in therapy or professionally speaking or or for education, but the entertainment side. Us.
Alex: It's really, it's so good.
Dr. Alexis: And so that clip was from, he's on TikTok at Jen Jones Gay guy. So that's Jen, GEN Jones, J-O-N-E-S. Gay guy. So you could, you could find him on TikTok and then also in our video description.
Yes. Great.
Dr. Alexis: Let's hear somebody else's response and how, how people are feeling about, yeah, about this. Uh.
Alex: Yeah. That's
Dr. Alexis: reality here.
Alex: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So the, this guy, I think kind of creator challenges, uh, the return to the land's core lie that white communities are self-sustaining and culturally original.
Um, 'cause yeah, white folks, real original.
All right. Yeah, no, appreciate you. Hey, if y'all got a whites only town, you better make sure that everything you used did not come from a minority.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Alex: I don't wanna see nothing that says made in China. Y'all better use white's only products. Okay, yada. I better not see y'all access that.
No Mexican restaurants. Mm-hmm. No Jamaican restaurants. Not that there would be any in your area. Anyway, do your research. I know y'all aren't very good at reading, but go look up what black people and other minorities invented and make sure you stop using it, okay? If you want white's only things you have to use.
White's only products and inventions. Woo. I know y'all think that you made everything, but you didn't. I also don't wanna hear no more country music with trap beats and eight oh eights. Get the fuck out. Get back to plucking that banjo. We don't want our music associated with yours. We don't want to be with the likes of you.
Get out. Matter of fact, I think the banjo came from Africa. It just had a different name and shape, but the same sound. Mm-hmm. So I don't think y'all can use that either. If you find out that you're lifted Ford F two 50, or your Silverado has parts from other countries, you better sell that or get parts that came out of America, right?
Mm-hmm. And when your killing starts failing, because you can only rely on white products, don't come crawling for help. Yeah. Don't come asking for handouts. Don't be starting GoFundMe that you want other people to contribute to. Mm-hmm. Ah, ah. You gotta show your supremacy. This is your golden opportunity.
Right? Do that. And one last thing. When y'all end up getting tired of each other, don't leave. Stay over there. Mm-hmm. Stay over there. You wanna be with only yourselves so bad when y'all start infighting, stay over there. Yeah. You better work it out.
Dr. Alexis: But cognitive doesn't it? See here is strong.
Alex: Yeah. For this
Dr. Alexis: return to the land crew.
Yeah. And cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort experience when holding. Two conflicting beliefs. Mm-hmm. At the same time, so the return to the land members reject multiculturalism while benefiting daily. Daily from global non-white contributors.
Alex: Very fair. Like how do know? I mean, well, it's also not, it's all symbolic.
Like it's a symbolic, but it's not real. Yeah. They're symbolic boundaries. They're they're invisible lines. They don't really want them to exist. They just wanna say that they're doing this thing that's different. Yeah. Well, and that they're self-sustaining with their whiteness. But it's, it's not real. It's not, it's all symbolic and they don't really.
Get it. And they don't define who belongs and who doesn't. They don't wanna define that because then they'd have to like restrict what they're doing and how they're doing it.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah. So to what extent are they restricting? So you're gonna accept all of potentially like the products.
Alex: Yep.
Dr. Alexis: And the inventions, and you'll
Alex: benefit from everybody else, but you'll be living, but
Dr. Alexis: you'll reject them from.
Alex: Your day-to-day lives. Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah. How does that work, particularly around food?
Alex: I mean, that's the thing, the hypocrisy of it I know, is it doesn't occur that it's my
Dr. Alexis: head.
Alex: Well, that's the, that's why I call it cognitive distance and earthquake. Your brain. I know.
Dr. Alexis: And the rejection of multicultural reality just creates that emotional strain, you know, if they're really, if they're really going all the way in with this white, and it's not just any white, it's, it's white, Christian, straight.
Right. You just stick to that and you only use those products or those inventions? Yeah. Or Or that food. Yeah. Or that fashion.
Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: Or that labor. Yeah. And like how exactly does that work? Groups like this, this return to the land promotes this rigid cognitive scheme of, right. Yeah. Mental shortcuts where they're trying to like simplify identity into like.
Pure or impure?
Alex: Well, yeah, it's all black and white. Black and white thing. Uh, not to be funny, but like black and white think black thinking. Right.
Dr. Alexis: And it's not clarity that, that's like the delusional part Yeah. Of it all. Because,
Alex: because as soon as you ask three questions and you're like, oh, we don't have answers to any these, like, that's where it all falls apart.
Yeah. So that it makes sense. What would your three questions be?
Alex: Well, oh, what are you using? Technology, right. Of any sort.
Yeah.
Alex: What type of, uh, how are you? I mean, I guess if they're growing their own food and doing their own thing, I, I guess it can be like, uh, how do you maintain your own interpersonal like economy?
I don dunno if they're going
Dr. Alexis: all that. Yeah.
Alex: How do you maintain your economy? Right. Um, do. Uh, I'm wondering like, what type of services are you utilizing
Dr. Alexis: to, like, what extent are you, are you restricting?
Alex: Yeah. You know? Yeah. Do you have, where are you
Dr. Alexis: creating these? These? Yeah.
Alex: Do you have an elevator in yet?
Dr. Alexis: And so that clip was from, at this fellow Dipped, D-I-S-F-E-L-L-O-W-D-I-P-P-E-D. Find them on TikTok. Spelled
Alex: it out, uh,
spelled it out in, in our show notes. That's
Dr. Alexis: why we usually don't like, like label the figure while we're doing this because, all right, so this next one, we have another someone else's thoughts around all of this.
Now he's not just roasting 'em, he's asking the deeper question. What emotional damage makes someone want to live in a whites only town?
So they're doing a whites only community in Arkansas and the fucking Ozarks, the whites only community in Arkansas. This is where we're at in America today. I, what the fuck do you mean?
You don't wanna be around people that look like me? Us brown people are fucking cool as hell. That's true. Yeah. Positive vibes. Good food seems beautiful. People like, what the fuck do you mean? You guys wanna live in a whites only community in America. And the year 2025, what had to happen in your childhood or growing up?
That as adults, you guys decided you guys wanna live in a white only community. Doesn't that sound stupid? How racist do you have to be to wanna live in a white only communities?
I
mean, processing. I don't know if it's just me, but even if I, if I was white, that sounds lame. I, I would never wanna do some shit like that.
That sounds fucking boring.
Dr. Alexis: Period.
Alex: Period. Good for you man. Good for you. I said they call it identity foreclosure, right? So like committing to rigid identity without exploration. So when you stick to these things and you're just on your little world and your little purview, it's out of fear, it's out of trauma, it's out of lack of these healthy alternative, you just paint yourself into a corner with your like.
Fear. Yeah. It's specific. I mean,
Dr. Alexis: this, this creator's asking the right questions, like what, what would cause someone to wanna reject everyone that's different than them?
Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: Moral in every way. Like and, and race for skin color and, and religion and sexual orientation. So
Alex: they typically call these things like closed systems.
Mm-hmm. Right? It leads to like the sameness of everyone. Yeah. Leads to like a lot of stagnation. Like you don't grow as a community or as a society when everyone's the same. Mm-hmm. Um, you tend to get really like angsty and angry and the infighting starts to happen. Mm-hmm. But because you're so enclosed and you believe that this is the only safe place to be now, 'cause you've convinced yourself of this thing, it just continues to boil over.
Yeah. And so many towns have. Open like this, that were similar to that. Mm-hmm. And they didn't let anyone else in and they, whatever else. This isn't the first time this is, and they all died. So like they all kind of either went away or the community died, or the business that was there died and it all just,
Dr. Alexis: yeah.
Alex: And yeah, it's a mess. It doesn't work. Yeah. And so as a experiment, it doesn't work. Mm-hmm. So,
Dr. Alexis: and that's what makes me go back to the woman that I'm, that I met in West Virginia. It's like, what is it exactly that happened that leads you to believe that your. You are a target of some kind of threat or violence?
What is, if any, the trauma there that's leaving you So fear-based and anxious and, well,
Alex: it's the paranoid. Yeah. I mean, for me, I, they, I hear people like, kind of like they lean in towards, like there was a thing that happened one time that then woke up some of their worldview.
Mm-hmm.
Alex: Right? Where like.
Someone who looked like them mm-hmm. In some way, shape, or form was killed, hurt, whatever, by somebody else. Mm-hmm. Who may or may not look like them. They usually don't care about that. And so that created some fear in their head that they are part of this thing. And so they include themselves into this regardless of whatever the other circumstances are.
So they latch onto like, oh, the shooting was at a church somewhere. Yeah. So therefore they go, oh.
Dr. Alexis: All churches. All churches. It was like, no, that was a black church that was targeted.
Alex: But if one white church has something there that's confirmation and then that you double down with that level of like fear.
Mm-hmm. So, yeah. Makes sense later. Logical fallacy.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah. And so the extremist ideologies often appeal to those with unfollowed trauma, whether that's like within their personal lives or the narratives that they were brought up with. I mean, maybe even vicarious trauma at this point. Yeah.
Alex: Yeah. Oh definitely.
Dr. Alexis: And that's something worth exploring for themselves. Why am I so scared of? That's a really good question
of people. That's a really good question. Like what? Like why are people so scared?
Dr. Alexis: Yeah. What has like actually happened to me or to people that I know versus, and I listen to the radio, local radio while I'm driving through rural towns, just to hear what kind of content and messaging they're receiving that's old mess.
Um, and it's a lot of very, like loud, fast talking, passionate, typically like white dudes, you know? Mm-hmm. Blaming everything on everybody else, and I'm like, this is the only Yep. Messaging they're receiving. Yep. And then I mean we, yeah, sure we have technology now, but if all their algorithms are still kind of feeding into that bias and it's
Alex: all the echo chamber.
Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah.
Alex: That's the problem.
Dr. Alexis: I'm wondering, was there actual lived. Personal trauma or is this like vicarious trauma at this point or, or that bubble then doing its work, yeah. Indoctrination. Yeah. All right, so that clip, that clip was from,
Alex: from Ramiro, T zero three, TikTok, and again, we'll have this in our descriptions when people get to this point where they're just done.
Yeah. I always think of emotions as colors, and one of the things is when you're just like fried, it is not because you don't have any emotion and you're numb to things. Yeah. That emotional apathy comes from all of the emotions hitting you and you're just done. So it's just, it's fatigue, it's emotional and compassion fatigue.
Yeah. It's not because you don't care. It's because you can't care. 'cause there's too many just things blocking the way.
I know. So it
Alex: absorbs all the light, right? Yeah. It all absorbs everything from you.
See, the thing is they're building, there's stuff out of hate. No matter what they say, when black people built their community, it was for love.
It was for protection. It was so we could have something to pass down. White folks have this whole country to pass down. It said they wanna preserve their culture. I don't know what kind of culture they preserve. I saw them playing a flu. Hell, even the dog is white. Let them have that
Alex: radical, except F, she's amazing.
Love it.
Dr. Alexis: So that compassion fatigue at this point, especially when I come from people of color.
Yeah,
Dr. Alexis: it's in
it's real
Dr. Alexis: white. People do white nationalist supremacy.
Alex: Because they're doing it on their own. You come to different neighborhoods, you come to different places and spaces that are not yours to try and sell that stuff.
You've seen how people respond, which I love, which is they, they gather as a community and they move them away.
Dr. Alexis: I think that's a part that I struggle with while learning this news is that like, okay, number one, how is this legal? Mm-hmm. And then number two, does it really matter? Mm-hmm. To
Alex: if they do it to themselves
Dr. Alexis: Yeah.
Alex: And are away from me.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah. Yeah. Um. As a Mexican American woman,
Alex: I mean, living
Dr. Alexis: in this land of,
Alex: the one thing I think about is what happens to the kids who gets raised there, how they become the most extreme. And the thing is because they'll become the most extreme because it's not, for example, like religious ideologies.
Like if you go to like say the Amish or the Mennonites, you don't hear like Amish and Mennonite shooters.
Dr. Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Alex: You do hear white Christian national shooters.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah.
Alex: So that's part of the problem, like the Amish. They have their own deal. They're doing their own thing. They bring it to them, uh, into themselves.
They have these li they have a whole gamut of like rules and things and stuff there. Is there any
Dr. Alexis: risk to the rest of us if we allow the compassion fatigue and the acceptances? They like, all right, go. Do you,
Alex: I mean, white nationalists are the largest terrorist group in the US
Dr. Alexis: and I mean, she, she brought up a good point.
Is that like what. When, uh, black or brown communities are coming together, even like the L-G-B-T-Q community, they, they create their own families, chosen families. Especially if they were rejected from their own biological families.
Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: Or families that, that they were brought up with it. It's coming from a place of love.
Love for one another and to support one another. And it really has very little to do with any, with other people. Yeah. It's less about like, no, you can't come in. It's more of like, no, we're just focusing on ourselves. Yeah. And our families and, um. In our religion.
Alex: Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: You know, and, and our
Alex: practices. The purposeful, but it doesn't usually create purposeful exclusion.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah. That purposeful exclusion is like the weird part. Yep.
Alex: That's what I mean. That's right. Yeah. The isolation of it's creative.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah. And then like all the creators saying like, well, no one wants to go
Alex: there. Stay outta there. Just don't go there. Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: Like, you don't have to, you don't have to. Like, yeah.
Put 'em my own life. Use any of us. We don't wanna go there anyway, for the most part.
Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: From what it sounds like. And, um, and the only concern is the legal, the legal loopholes. You know, is this gonna be precedent for this being created and replicated in other communities that could be detrimental
Alex: Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: To black, brown, Jewish, lgbtq? That's,
Alex: that's a question. When does it, when does it tip the scales or become detrimental? I don't know. I have no idea. I have no answer to that.
Dr. Alexis: It's like, sure, go. Do you? Focus on yourselves, but like why do you have to be all?
Alex: Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: Coming hot and heavy refusing people who aren't even interested in joining you.
It's very odd.
Alex: It's wild.
Dr. Alexis: So black and brown communities shouldn't have to carry the burden of confronting every supremacist group and not as the compassion between that. I think you're gonna see from a lot of these. Yeah. Creators are responding to this reality. That clip was from at
Alex: J-U-J-U-S, NA Na 2.0.
Dr. Alexis: There you go. All right. You could find 'em on TikTok. Yeah. So this response feels comedic. But the prediction is real.
Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: Control based groups tend to
implode. This is a WA all the time. White SUPies to base was it? We said we making? No man. We heard, you know, live with y'all dad there no way. Keep y'all over there.
What? Why y'all don't care, man? Take our ass over there and go on. Leave us alone And what? We be won. What's wrong with us? Why? Nobody with us? What this saying, don't fall. If y'all don't care, everybody, hell no. We don't care. We been wanting y'all go over there live by y'all cell, leave us alone. I'm Who was gonna blame when?
When the don't work out. This ain't no. Fun you all. Well, I guess we can start accepting some fun. Why they what you old for? Couple spots for you. We're not going to pray you for friend. Why? But you. You are more than welcome. Oh, why did, wait, the
rollercoaster? The response? Yeah, that is just so
Alex: it happened before.
I mean, so it has happened before, like they've tried. These versions of things in different ways. I mean, if you look at like the Mormon church, uh, did that, the, uh, fundamentals church of the Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints, patriarchy, all things, many wives, all that stuff there make choices, secrecy, harm.
That stuff happened. They've changed and made some revisions over time. But these things are. Different versions of cult that usually lead to exploitation
Dr. Alexis: and a supremacist enclave. Yeah. Often followed this like high control group dynamics. Yeah. So there's this rigid hierarchy, the punishment for dissent and the gendered obedience.
Yeah. As well. I mean, it's all historically led to collapse. Yeah. And so time will tell, oh, we'll check back in in another, what, five, 10 years? Between
Alex: two years? So who knows? But I mean, they're just getting started to live
Dr. Alexis: together. Yeah. So, yeah. And we're gonna be diving more into understanding what you mentioned.
Is this a cult?
Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: Right. And there's a few models to take a look at. Mm-hmm. Um, one is Steven Hass. Bite Model BITE. Yeah, that's,
Alex: I don't a good one. Bite a. Yeah. It's bite. It's bite money.
Dr. Alexis: And it stands for when you're assessing people, groups', circumstances, is there behavioral control? Mm-hmm.
Is
Dr. Alexis: there information control?
Is there thought control? And is there emotional control? Mm-hmm. So when we're looking at this group, for example. The return to the land meets at least like three of the four, suggesting it's a pretty high demand, psychologically manipulative environment. Really. Behavioral control is that like they have to put, put their money into it and then go develop on this land or go live on this land.
The information control is the questionable one. Mm-hmm. Because I don't know what that's about. Okay. In there, I mean, well,
Alex: what information comes in and out?
Dr. Alexis: I'm sure they still have wifi.
Alex: Yeah. I mean, I know, but they'd probably limit, they'd probably have, uh, blocks on that stuff. 'cause there is, there are those like boxes that like, well
Dr. Alexis: I know just because it's possible doesn't mean it's, they're doing it.
So we, we don't know what they're doing about Inform,
Alex: but what I'm saying is it's out there. So they wanted to utilize tough stuff that's can
Dr. Alexis: the thought control mm-hmm. Is by being so selective and making sure you have like this European ancestry and
Alex: Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: And, and it could only have like. Christian
Alex: Well, and I'm sure there's enough shame and guilt and other things there that hetero
Dr. Alexis: enormity and, and then the emotional control question mark as well.
I mean the emotional control is their stance on like white, Christian, heteros, heteros are pure and. Better than everyone else. Yeah. And so if you, if you don't align with that, then the emotion is like, I don't know, disgusted or disdain or, so there's that emotional control as well and that rejection power.
So we'll dive more into, it's a cult stuff too. But that last clip was from
Alex: Ran Artez. I'm gonna say that. R-A-E-O-N-A-R-T-E-Z. I leave the fun stuff. I, TikTok I leave the, the fun credits of tease. Sure. I agree stuff. There's a lot of things that sound like indifference, so we talk about the difference of like compassion fatigue.
Mm-hmm. But it's usually even just like a call out. Yeah. And so like, like calling people out on their garbage there and like challenging some of those things. So I, I like this one 'cause they definitely just are calling people out and. That's useful. They need that check. I mean, as a society, that's actually what we need a lot of the time, is that there is those checks to those things so that you don't fall into this trap, but they're gonna fall into it.
So by now we've all probably heard about the group of people who started an all white community right outside of Missouri that is thinking about expanding. And I want y'all to know that I don't care. I cannot express enough from the bottom of my heart, from the depths of my soul, how much I do not care.
In fact, I encourage it 'cause the folks who think like that should be in one community together, it is safer for everyone else if they're not around us. Safer,
and
that's the difference between groups like that and black folks. I've never understood why people had a problem with black people existing in spaces that are safe for us, like HBCUs or other black places for black people to congregate.
And that's outside of the fact that white folks don't need safe spaces to congregate because every space is literally a safe space for them.
Yeah,
I think they should go for it. Couldn't think of a better idea myself. Now, what I will say is I think it's a little ironic that Trump and his friends don't have anything to say about this.
I find it odd that the White House hasn't put out a statement talking about revoking money or funding from somebody because of this.
Dr. Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Could just be me, but. Whatever
Dr. Alexis: that white, safe space ideology. Yeah. Kind of going back to that, it often masks the desire for dominance, not safety. Yeah. It's more about that power and control.
Yeah. In that sense,
it's all, yeah.
Dr. Alexis: And then for marginalized communities, create safe spaces for survival.
Alex: Yeah. You
Dr. Alexis: know, the, this segregation for supremacy is like, well, because
Alex: like, even just like supremacy takes like a really large modicum of like narcissism,
right? Right.
Alex: So then you have this like collective narcissism.
So like, because of this group is superior than others and you deserve special protection. All these things there, like even at the cost of others that, that, that, think about it, narcissism, we throw that word around a lot, uhhuh, but like narcissism is like. You thinking you are better than others at the peril of others.
Right. Remember, it's that it's not just like you think you're better than others, that just maybe ego or mm-hmm. Being an asshole. Mm-hmm. But this is something stronger, which is at the other, at other people's peril to other I I
Dr. Alexis: like that, that distinction there. Yeah. That, that grandiosity as well. So
you
Dr. Alexis: think all of these things, even though you haven't done anything to Yep.
To really support
Yep.
Dr. Alexis: To, to support all that. Mm-hmm. Self-worth.
Alex: Yeah. You have
Dr. Alexis: to the extreme,
Alex: yes. You have a, a large level of entitlement. Right.
Dr. Alexis: And this creator, unlike some of the others, is bringing up that, that silence from institutions mm-hmm. From our Yeah, yeah. Our government, our federal government, the institutional betrayal that we always face when systems claim to protect everyone, um, ignore harm against the marginalized groups.
So like, if this does. Or this, this some kind of like legal threat to, um, fair housing, for example, or to civil rights or discrimination. Then let's go ahead and um, let's have someone do their jobs. I don't know whose job that is. Someone should be addressing this.
Alex: Somebody is. Yeah. Yeah. So that
Dr. Alexis: clip was.
From the real d Thomas. For real? Yeah,
Alex: just one it. It's all about them trying to rebrand displacement as manifest tested. I like some of the siren there.
So a group of Pimple plus people are building an all white community in the Ozark kales in Arkansas. That is literally a requirement to join this community.
You must be white. They said no black people, no Jewish people, no homosexuals or anyone a part of the LGBTQIA plus community. You must prove you're European ancestry and you must be Christian and not follow any non-European religion. If I'm being honest, my initial reaction upon hearing about this all white community being built, praise be Chris, me.
He has prayed for times like this. People have been begging for years for white people in J-Lo to go away and stop bothering us. And unfortunately, I know this community is very unserious and is not going to last for a couple of reasons. Number one, the community is called return to the. Having people prove European ancestry to join a community called Return to the Land on American Soil.
Be so fucking for real. I'm gonna hold your hand with a napkin in between when I say this, that's not your land to return to. No. If anything, you should be returning that land to Native Americans. They're talking about some, oh, we're creating this community because we wanna be able to control who our neighbors are.
If y'all would've left the world the alone and stopped, Christopher Katrina, Columbus Lopez and everything, we wouldn't have this problem. Then they're talking about something We wanna be able to observe white American culture. Irony of building a community on stolen land. Mm-hmm. To preserve white American culture.
Alex: That is the best that is. Is this the way of
trying to convince everyone that they were given the bill and edit? Like, no, you're just the fucking villain. Like what? The white Americans have no culture. Their only culture is stealing, so to say, you're preserving your culture by building a community on stolen land.
A brain eating parasite with Star.
Dr. Alexis: Again, these videos are for entertainment.
Alex: Entertainment. Really what they're talking about is like control more. Control mil you control is like, you know, your group around you and the people in which you see in your periphery. So to be able to control everything with any given system, cruise with people in really big ways.
And so that,
Dr. Alexis: that, that's the concerning part.
Alex: Yeah. I mean, thought reform. Mm-hmm. It's commonly used to like identify like cult behaviors. Right. Kind of like, hey, we're talking about bite. So, yeah. The issue with, when you control a mill, you let way, and you control who they're interacting with, how they're interacting with them, in what capacity.
That interaction is then reflected back onto the core message of whiteness and white supremacy. Mm-hmm. So you basically bounce everything back. Everything gets bounced back to white supremacy. Yeah. So it's a really dangerous way to program people. Mm-hmm. Uh, or brainwash people in a certain way. Robert j Lifton's.
Eight criteria for thought reform is like commonly used identifying the cult behaviors. Yeah, so it's, and it's scary.
Dr. Alexis: I'm so glad that someone finally pointed out the absurdity of you have to prove you're, do they know? Do they look at a map? Yeah. You have to prove European ancestry in order to return to your land.
In the US
Alex: someone else's land on the US
Dr. Alexis: stolen land in the us.
Alex: I just, so, yeah. So that, that more manifest destiny,
Dr. Alexis: colonial logic.
Alex: Yes. Manifest destiny. It's our land. Land. All land is our land.
Dr. Alexis: Well, you're racing. It's indigenous and multicultural roots. Yeah. Absurd. To me it's, that is just, that's ridiculous.
Yeah. And so when we're looking at Lifton's. Criteria. Yeah. Or OC cult. Right. Some of the things that are picked up from this reality is this like demand for purity. Yeah. Which they're claiming is Christian, white, straight people. Mm-hmm. Um, this sacred science or this unquestionable ideology. Yeah. The doctrine over the person.
So individuals must conform or like be expelled. Yeah. 'cause that's all it. Yeah, if that's all that, who can enter? I'm guessing
Alex: if you break those rules, do you leave? You have to leave. And that's thing, those are blanks we're filling in ourselves, but that's the assumption.
Dr. Alexis: Right? And then dispensing of existence of outsiders are unworthy.
Alex: Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: So those are some of like the cult-like stuff that, that we're better than you. It's kicking not better than you. And so the last clip was from Nene Jones. Three. You could find a link to them in our show description. They're fantastic. Here we go. Let's really dive into one of my favorite topics lately.
Cults.
Alex: Yeah. Yeah. And cult psychology.
Dr. Alexis: We're gonna end on a high note here.
Alex: Hello. I, so when I worked at the hospital, one of the, one of my favorite client bases were people who were coming outta cults, who ended up, yeah, they commit crimes because they wanted to get outta the call. So then, and then they'd be incompetence in trial because they would.
Either fe mental illness or engaged in certain things were fairly mentally 'cause they were very traumatized. Yeah. And so then I'd be able to work with huge numbers of people who are actually coming out of cults Wow. In the state of California. Mm-hmm. For these various issues to be competent in trial.
Yeah. And so we'd work through a lot of trauma work. I really liked this stuff. Yeah. It's a lot of fun to work with cults. Yeah. Or. Survivors of cults or people trying to get outta cults?
Dr. Alexis: Uhhuh
Alex: good, tough.
Dr. Alexis: The fun part being intellectually stimulating forever.
Alex: Oh, it's different. It's different work. How often you get to be a person who works through
Dr. Alexis: a cult.
So if it looks like a cult, isolates like a cult, and controls like a cult, it's time to stop calling.
A community fair. Six signs. Someone is an occult from a licensed therapist. Number one, the leader is never questioned. Even when the leader causes real harm, they rationalize it. They say things like they probably had good motives.
It's no longer about what is right or logical. It's about staying loyal no matter what. Number two, there's an us versus them mentality. The group is good, everyone else is wrong, toxic, or lost. There's no in between. You're either with them or against them, and if you're against them, you are the enemy.
Number three, confirmation bias runs deep. Mm-hmm. They only trust sources that reinforce what they already believe. Anything that challenges the group is ignored, dismissed, or labeled as evil. Mm-hmm. They're not thinking critically. They are reinforcing a narrative. Number four, isolation. They start cutting off people who care about them.
Friends become distractions. Family becomes a threat. They begin to place the group about their own family, trusting the group's approval more than the people who've known them their whole lives. Number five, fear-based control. They're not staying because they're thriving. They are staying because they're scared.
They've been told if they leave, they'll be punished, abandoned, or destroyed. Fear becomes the glue holding everything together. Number six, they have no idea. They're in a cult. They think they've found the truth. Their thoughts, words and choices have been shaped without them realizing and their ego doesn't wanna admit they've been brainwashed.
Alex: I like what they're saying there because it's not just ideological, it's a whole lot of infrastructure. That's why home is really important. 'cause the idea of home and community are. So integral to who you are and what you're experiencing. So this builds out all of your aspects of the control, right? So housing, religions, schools, who's seeing you, how they're seeing you, so, so surveillance.
Yeah. So it, it permeates all aspects of your being and all of your like, hierarchy of needs on that base level. Yeah. It's a mess.
Dr. Alexis: So I'm guessing you're seeing, especially as someone who's worked with people who've fought to get out of. You're seeing a bunch of red flags Yeah. Here. Oh, sure. I mean the, the mental health risks alone are immense.
Yeah. When it comes to groups like this, the identity foreclosure, the emotional manipulation, the loss of autonomy, the family estrangement, even if they're moving their nuclear family into this,
Alex: I wonder how visiting works
Dr. Alexis: like family into this rural. Yeah. Community. What about the rest of their, yeah, their family.
The doctrine over the person. So individuals must conform or be spelled like we talked about the dispensing of existence and other others are unworthy. We know that there's two co-founders involved in, in this LLC. Yeah. That's building out the, these,
Alex: these communities, I don't wanna
Dr. Alexis: call it the community.
They, they call these properties, these acres of land. Sure that was stolen from the digital people and, and so it, you know, it is isolated. So there are a lot of concerns.
Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: The founders there we're not sure about like how much role and control that they have over the people. Yeah. If the people could leave what access to information they have.
So there's still a lot of question marks to this. No, for sure. Phenomenon, this replay new phenomenon?
Alex: Well, I mean, because, because that's the thing, like, it, it exists in so many different ways. We've watched it exist in so many different ways. Yeah. It's a iter new iteration of it. I mean, there's both ones that were meant for good and others that did not go so well.
I don't, I, I mean like. Yeah, they're all over. It's just all sorts of ways. So this is just another thing to kind of observe and see what's happening. But,
Dr. Alexis: so that last clip was from therapy to the point. Uh, you can find 'em on YouTube and I mean, the big question is
what are your thoughts and feelings about all of this, if any? Do you have any reactions?
Alex: Me? Yeah. Everyone out there. If you ever Actually, I'm happy to hear 'em. My, I mean, my reaction is like, yeah, it's, if you notice that you have people in your life or people that you know that are drawn to these types of ideologies, first you're gonna wanna start by identifying what they're really searching for.
Like whether it's like security, identity, purpose, and then try and like name the harm without shaming the need. Yeah, so like there is like, Hey, I hear that you really need to feel safe or that you're looking to feel really safe, and I hear you want feeling unsafe. The currently current community you're in also.
How could you build that out while maintaining your link to everything else that's part of a more inclusive or healthier dynamic?
Dr. Alexis: Yeah.
Alex: So that, something like that.
Dr. Alexis: So just copy and paste what Alex said. Okay. Same it to the people you're concerned about.
Alex: Is it gonna be, are they gonna trans. Transcribe it.
Is it transcribed before we transcribed?
Dr. Alexis: We're sweet wi and reason.com/dc radio. We have a transcription of our show.
Alex: Go in there, transcribe what I just said, and then it'll be there. I mean the transcription, and then you copy it, and then you paste it to your friend and be like,
this
Alex: guy.
Dr. Alexis: I mean, the, the difficulty, even when it just comes to general therapy across the board, especially if someone's struggling with these types of ideologies, it is that, um.
That motivational awareness, you know, like not everyone is aware that that what they're believing or practicing is even a problem.
Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: Let alone, if they do know that it's a concern, are they even motivated to do anything about it?
Yep.
Dr. Alexis: You know, so that awareness might not even be there because they've been already kind of like isolated Yeah.
Right. In this echo chamber of like, no, this is the reality that others are dangerous. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm, that's. What's wrong with them? Like that's just fact.
Yeah.
Dr. Alexis: To them. And so if you start exploring that a little bit more, you could use motivational interviewing. You help them reflect their reasons for wanting to join some kind of group like this could gently question any kind of contradictions that might come up.
Like, well, I was
Alex: thinking mo motivational interviewing is like, um. I call it mom talk. It's like, yeah, but so Zel, what do you think about that? And what do you think about that and what do you think about that? And it kind of chips away. Can you keep on asking you a train of thought and kinds of questions?
Oh, yeah. But if, if it's the end, how was that? Or what do you like about that? Mm-hmm. And like, you keep on chipping away that way. Yeah. And you build the motivation around it. Yeah. So, yeah. Oh, it's a good, it's a good strategy.
Dr. Alexis: There's a lot online to learn more about it.
Alex: Yep. So if you, your loved one, it's lot to
Dr. Alexis: navigate.
Alex: So if you are, if your loved ones are considering joining a call Yes. If there are plenty of resources, yes,
Dr. Alexis: there are plenty of resources. Or if you are recognizing that they're in a cult, or maybe you're recognizing that you are in a cult, or maybe you're recognizing that there's just other strangers out there in the world that are, have these belief systems, how are you taking care of yourself?
Alex: Yeah, well, laughter
Dr. Alexis: comedy.
Alex: Yeah, satire
Dr. Alexis: therapy's
Alex: good. Happy to work with people who have these issues. I love to do that work.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah, I
Alex: have several on my roster right now, and yeah, we do good stuff.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah. And we have some educational materials out there for you at the Aura Health app you could access. Yeah.
Some classes around emotional regulation, even multiculturalism and multicultural humility. Mm-hmm. Uh, and some nice meditations.
True to
Dr. Alexis: practice with. If you're like noticing the news and what's going on in 2025 and the cognitive dissonance that you're observing in others is just like hurting your brain mind.
Yeah. Give yourself some extra time to take a break and to recognize that this is not the whole world that thinks this way. This is a very small population. Will it have any direct impact on you? Probably not. Hopefully not. Hopefully
Alex: not.
Dr. Alexis: Hopefully the legal system still does its thing.
Alex: Or has it stress, balance or Walmart, they'll do exactly what they're gonna do and they'll stay do it right there until they don't.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah. If history is gonna repeat itself,
Alex: in which way
Dr. Alexis: they will fail, they'll explode and then, um, and then come back to the rest of society. Hopefully
Alex: not as sandwiched.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah.
Alex: Don't be damaged. Sorry. I would love to not,
Dr. Alexis: and you might have to see them through
Alex: forensics. I would love to work my way out of a job.
That would be great. I'd just love to like do all the preemptive stuff. Right. That would be lovely. Let's stop creating more trauma and just like. Be nice and let's just be proactive. Yeah. And
Dr. Alexis: preventative.
Alex: Just be kind, thoughtful humans.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah. And support one another
Alex: who don't support white supremacy.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah.
Let's just dismantle white supremacy. Yeah. They'll be healthier for everyone. It's psychological. It's
Alex: definitively not useful. It's science, your mental health.
Dr. Alexis: And if you don't like that answer, it doesn't mean that science is wrong or bad. It just is.
Alex: Just means your parents' love you. It's not an opinion.
It just means your parents don't love you. Wait,
Dr. Alexis: or you had some kind of drama. I, huh?
Alex: Sure, sure. Or some kind of chemical imbalance. White supremacy feels like a real downer. Thanks.
Dr. Alexis: Responses. Were very therapeutic,
Alex: highly therapeutic.
Dr. Alexis: They're funny. They're healthy for you. White supremacy, obviously that's trash.
That's
Alex: That's trash.
Dr. Alexis: Yeah.
That's our professional opinion. Professional opinion, or just
Dr. Alexis: professional science, I have to tell you. Yeah.