Immigration Raids: Public Safety or Psychological Warfare?

 

Wit & Reason with alex and DR. Alexis

Join Dr. Alexis and Alex as they delve into the complex legal, psychological, and community ramifications of ICE raids in Los Angeles and across the country. In this emotionally charged episode, they discuss the public's reactions, the mental health impacts, and the historical context of resistance in LA. Featuring heartfelt discussions, expert insights, and reactions to social media posts, this episode offers a multifaceted look at an urgent issue. Listener discretion is advised due to sensitive content. Tune in to understand the human element behind these disturbing events.

Resources from the Show

  • American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) – Immigrants' Rights Project

  • Policy advocacy, legal analysis, and educational toolkits for low-income immigrants: National Immigration Law Center (NILC)

  • US: Call or text 988 for the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline

  • Outside the US: Visit the website for international crisis hotlines

  • To connect with a therapist or explore non-emergency mental health services

  • Redeem your 30-day Guest Pass for meditations, wellness lessons, and sleep aid via Aura Health App

  • Reviewed Content - Creator Credits:
    Giovanny Castillo- @gio.castle on Instagram
    Democracy and Freedom- @all_things_democracy on Instagram Jermaine Fowler - @thehumanityarchive on Instagram
    Philip DeFranco- @philipdefranco on TikTok
    Under The Desk News- @underthedesknews on TikTok
    Xavier Buck- @historyin3 on TikTok
    George Lee Jr. - @theconsciouslee on Instagram

Host

Dr. Alexis Moreno - Wit & Reason

ALEXIS MORENO, PSYD, MA, MS - SHE/HER

PSYCHOLOGIST, HEALTH CORRESPONDENT, Speaker, & Founder

Dr. Alexis (she/her) utilizes the powerful impact awareness, education, & opportunity have on mental health. She mindfully creates fun & supportive experiences for her speaking and media audience and private clients to safely explore their true values, learn new healthy practices, & take action steps toward living authentically.

She has a Doctorate in Clinical Community Psychology, a Master of Arts in Marriage & Family Therapy, & a Bachelor of Science in both Television Broadcasting & Psychology. With over 16 years of experience in media & psychology, she aims to make mental health relatable & accessible for all through her coaching, consultation, & media outreach.

Dr. Alexis provides media, speaking, & mental health consultation services.

Alex Honigman - Wit & Reason

Alex Honigman, LICSW, MA- HE/ HIM

Clinical Director, Speaker, Therapist, & Executive Coach

Alex (he/him) enjoys the relationship between the psyche and society. Having never wanted to pick a side in the nature versus nurture debate, he pursued degrees in both Psychology and Sociology and finally a Master’s of Social Work with an emphasis on clinical interventions. He has worked as an educator for non-profits and lecturer for Universities. Starting as a therapist for survivors of trauma, moving on to perpetrators, and spending significant time as a Licensed Clinical Social Worker at a Forensic State Hospital. Alex continues to emphasize culture as a key component to effective therapy and the changing of systems (organizations and businesses). Whether this be through music, film, tv, art, comics, games, memes or other aspects of popular (or sometimes unpopular) culture. Utilizing an individual’s cultural values to make for a more meaningful individualized therapeutic intervention.

Airing Weekdays on 96.3 HD4 DC Radio

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Episode Transcription

Alex: Dive deep into the intricate dynamics of ICE raids in Los Angeles and around our country. With us

Dr. Alexis: Community psychologist, Dr. Alexis,

Alex: and licensed clinical social worker, Alex,

Dr. Alexis: As we explore legal, psychological, and community impacts,

Alex: This episode taps into the heartfelt discussions and expert insights to unravel the truth behind turmoil.

Listen now or save for later. Content contains sensitive subject matter,

Dr. Alexis: We have been having a lot of fun with a new segment.

We like to call

Alex: Therapy

Dr. Alexis: or Trash, and we still need a lot more toys,

Alex: therapy

Dr. Alexis: to help, to help us make salad bags. And when we judge whether the stuff we find online and the stuff that you send us is therapy, therapeutic, helpful, healing healthy, or just complete garbage. But today I am feeling, I'm trying to say today, I'm feeling extra vulnerable and nervous.

My heart rate's been a little more accelerated because we're gonna be focusing in on content on social media that's related to the ICE raids in Los Angeles. Yeah. And the, the response to those ICE raids being protests, that, that have been happening in Los Angeles, California, and then with other protests.

Yeah. All over. Even saw some out in Savannah, Georgia. I always loved seeing them pop up in my feed and stuff. So for me, this is a, for me, both as like a human being and a Mexican American woman with a family who’s in the US, been in the US since before it became the US, the original, the OGs.

Alex: The OGs

Dr. Alexis: of this land, we now call the West Coast of, or the western side of the West.

Formerly known as Mexico.

Alex: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Alexis: This has always been a challenging subject for me to publicly discuss, especially like in a somewhat professional

Alex: Yeah.

Dr. Alexis: Educate, educational or even entertainment purpose. Well, it,

Alex: I mean, it's vulnerable. It also feels inherently political, even though it doesn't have to be.

Yeah. Well, I mean, everything is political. Let's be very clear. Yeah. Everything is political. You drink water, it's political. Just keep that in mind. But here I say this, whether not it's clean and

Dr. Alexis: safe for you and who's clean and safe for,

Alex: And how do you get in? Who has access to it and who makes, what makes consider structure and what does it look?

Yeah. And who

Dr. Alexis: cares about whether or not the water is clean or who has the privilege to not even think about that kind of stuff. Exactly. So

Alex: Yeah,

Dr. Alexis: So even water is political,

Alex: So, but the idea is, it's also sociological and psychological, even if you're taking distance from it politically and not taking a stance as to political parties or whatever else.

There is the human element of this thing, which I think is really interesting for us to dive into.

Dr. Alexis: Yes. Uh, and that's the line I, I try to manage while discussing these things, especially if we're trying to educate from a psychological or sociological perspective. Yeah. We also try to entertain and keep people like here as much as possible.

It feels almost impossible to do when, yeah, when there's trauma happening outside our doors and on our screens in front of our faces. Uh, and so I feel, I also feel vulnerable because, you know, I have a, we both have backgrounds in forensic psychology, so working with people involved in the legal system and helping the legal system make decisions on people's lives, our clients, our patients' lives, and yet I still don't feel like competent enough.

Discuss like immigration law, you know? Well, but that's not my, that's not my specialty. Sure.

Alex: But also, I mean, but I'm also an

Dr. Alexis: American citizen, and should have an understanding of it to a certain extent.

Alex: And whatever you kind of bring to the table is your version of things. So we could always fact-check us and nothing else.

Yes,

Dr. Alexis: Please do. It's also, especially on immigration law,

Alex: We are people in the US, and so how much do we know about our rights, and those things is also kind of an interesting question.

Dr. Alexis: So as I started doing the research to prepare for this show, as I was even deciding whether or not to talk about this subject matter on our show, you know, I went through my AI researches and had AI try to help me make sense of it all from credible resources.

And there is a lot that I didn't know.

Alex: Yeah.

Dr. Alexis: And I try to stay as up to current events and politics and policies and our, what's going on in our communities as much as possible. And even then, there's a lot I didn't know and when I was talking to you about it, there's a lot you didn't know either.

Alex: No.

Dr. Alexis: Yeah.

Alex: I don't pretend to know everything, especially about the law

Dr. Alexis: or about ICE or its history and how we even got here to the point where we can apparently have ice raids in our communities.

Alex: Yeah.

Dr. Alexis: Like how is that even legal.

Alex: Well, that's my problem is yeah. Like I, I would argue that it's not,

Dr. Alexis: and

Alex: they would argue then it is and yeah,

Dr. Alexis: the law is saying, so go ahead and do your own research.

My understanding is that, that, you know, ICE was formed in the early two thousands, around 2008, in a response to nine 11, and being able to identify and, and deport people who are a threat to our. Safety, you know, like terrorists. And yet as critical and serious as that sounds, immigration falls under civil and just administrative proceed.

Civil law. Yeah. Yeah. Administrative proceedings. You know, it's not, from what I understand, it's not even a criminal act to, to lapse on your visa. Yeah. You know, while you're staying here. That's not a criminal act that's going to,

Alex: it's not punishable by jail. It's not punishable by these things. Right? Yeah.

Dr. Alexis: So ICE falls under this, this lovely little civil umbrella. That's not supposed to be treating people like criminals, and because it's under this civil administrative process, there aren't requirements like when you're following through like police making criminal arrests where you know, you do have to make sure that the people understand their rights

Alex: and there are more Miranda rights.

That due process of law.

Dr. Alexis: Yes. Everything that makes America like and that they get legal representation and then they get to go through the legal process as quickly as possible.

Alex: The right to a fair and speedy trial.

Dr. Alexis: Yes. And so since it's not criminal, it's under civil, people can be detained for months.

There's no requirements like you have, there's no, the standards of care and this

Alex: thing, they're sitting around doing something that looks and acts and sounds like jail, but without any jail. And in fact, it's worse than jail because they don't hold the same practices as jail because those also have.

People checking in on those things to make sure that they're humane. So because it's under something civil, you can treat them worse than criminals. When they're not criminals because you're saying they're criminals. That's why you're rounding people up, which, see what I mean? Like it's this weird circular logic that doesn't actually make sense.

And that's where, so it's like a

Dr. Alexis: loophole,

Alex: cognitive dissonance content, and

Dr. Alexis: that that does not work for my brain. No. And personal relationships.

Alex: So that's why people work or

Dr. Alexis: legal or political or societal, cultural, and so that's why my brains, I'm extra tired too, because my brain struggles with stuff like that.

Yeah. I'm trying to make sense of it. Again, please, if you're watching us either live or on demand or listening to our broadcast on DC Radio, however you're accessing us right now, please fact-check us. Please keep us accountable, especially if you are one of our friends in immigration law.

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Alexis: And tell us if we’re, for whatever reason the research we found is missing the mark completely.

Or if, if we're getting it accurately.

Alex: I love being told up.

Dr. Alexis: Yeah, we're totally fine. We have enough ego strength. Yeah. And humility to be okay. Oh, completely. When we're wrong, especially things that are out of our scope of competency. Yeah. We need to have an understanding of what we're talking about here when we're talking about ICE.

'cause when I was looking at those raids in the news, I was like, how is this legal? Particularly how unlike police officers, they're able to cover their faces. Yeah. And cover any identification stating like. What form of authority they have. Yeah, who they are. That is terrifying

Alex: it. Well, that's the thing they're saying.

It's to protect the officers, but it actually instills more fear, which actually puts them more at risk. Right. Which is interesting because psychologically all the things they're doing are things which actually incite anger, violence, frustration. Yes. Fear, worry,

Dr. Alexis: which we're gonna talk more about, but, but are you saying that then ICE officers are at more risk than police officers?

Alex: Yeah, they are. That's what they're saying. Which is, you know,

Dr. Alexis: because police officers. Have that equal vulnerability. Mm-hmm. While showing their face, having their badge number, having their name. The same threats that ICE agents would have are the same to our exposed police officers, and yet they're still able to uphold, you know, that practice of identity.

That public awareness of announcing who they are and where they're coming from and why they're there. And so that part I didn't understand as well, which has took me off on this

Alex: research. But it's also interesting because with the lack of identification of a person

Dr. Alexis: Yeah.

Alex: Can you even. Ensure, yeah, that when these people are getting taken, I wouldn't trust so they, I could put on a Balaclava.

You

Dr. Alexis: do you trust that

Alex: I could put on a balaclava and a pair of khakis and a military L shirt knife and there's people legitimately

Dr. Alexis: dressing like that

Alex: and go and steal some people off the street and call myself. I used ignore it. I have any idea. That's why it's dangerous. On top of that, it's why it's dangerous.

Dr. Alexis: So now that we kind of have a general idea of history how ICE was founded, developed. It's very new, considering early two thousands. Children is older, but Yeah. Oh, go ahead. Fact-check me and where we're at today in, in 2025, where we're having these large scale, what they're calling ICE rates in, uh, a community.

The majority of the minority are Hispanic individuals, Mexican

Alex: American. It's only 20 years old.

Dr. Alexis: 20 years old. What year you got the ICE was, what's the word? ICE was formulated,

Alex: immigrations and custom enforcement,

Dr. Alexis: and it's under the Department of Home of Security,

Alex: but it's March 2nd, 2003.

Dr. Alexis: Okay. 2003.

Alex: Yeah. So 22 years old.

Dr. Alexis: Early two thousands ago

Alex: when we started building this thing out.

Dr. Alexis: All right, so as we dive into this and as we share what we've been being online, we got some videos from people talking about this subject matter on Instagram and on TikTok. A reminder that this content is for educational and entertainment purposes only.

This is not therapy. Though, I think we all very much need it right now.

Alex: Yeah.

Dr. Alexis: Everyone on all sides of everything.

Alex: Yeah.

Dr. Alexis: So what we are sharing under Fair Ease for commentary and critique, and you'll find all the links to the original creators in our show notes on witandreason.com/dcradio. And I'll also try to add them to our YouTube channel where you could find our show on demand youtube.com @witandreason.

Yeah,

Alex: it's so professional. It's like you've had a radio show for years,

Dr. Alexis: so go ahead and let us know in the captions if there's any material that you've seen out there that you believe has been actually very therapeutic for you in this process, or has been trash. Or if it's a big question mark and you're like, I don't know, is just legit.

Alex: Yeah.

Dr. Alexis: We'll tell you. Yeah. Tag us @witandreason. Or share the video in the comments and we'll take a look at it for you.

Awesome. Okay. Okay.

Dr. Alexis: We ready to dive in?

Yeah.

Dr. Alexis: We'll pull up the video first and then we'll talk more about who the creator is and what they're about and where you could find them if they're therapeutic.

I can't handle this, y'all. This is crazy. Yo, I didn't, I didn't think this was about to affect me like this, but, uh, our neighbor school, y'all know, I work at a school,

our neighbor in school, I think it's gra grata. I don't know how to say it. It's gra grata or something like that. They were having their graduation and there's helicopters in the sky if both of these schools are, I appreciate that vulnerability.

Alex: It was sweet human. What a sweet human and teacher. This is the person I want teaching kids.

This is the person I want teaching kids. That's right. The kind, sweet, caring human. I appreciate that.

Dr. Alexis: Okay, so there was actually five people or accounts, organizations tagged in this post. And this was one of them. So I picked one of the top ones from that George

Alex: Lee Junior Education. What's their handle?

So it's the conscious Lee. So the conscious Lee,

Dr. Alexis: followed by 639,000 followers. So a good following identified in education with a Master's of Art in adult education and HR, N-A-A-C-P image award nominee. Award nominee

Alex: webby.

Dr. Alexis: So if you're interested in following this person, there they are. That's their Instagram at least.

Thoughts, feelings both to you all and to Alex? No.

Alex: ‘cause it's children. Children are highly vulnerable. So he used to work with a Holocaust survivor, I think I've told you this before. And his story starts with the family is all going to a particular space to have a meeting and he's not there and his family doesn't come back.

And, oh, we see that. 11, 10. Louis was young. The book is awesome. He's a great guy. Plug it at the end. They passed years ago and I used to work with him. I worked with him for 15 years. He was awesome.

Dr. Alexis: So his family was at a meeting.

Alex: They went, they had fled part of Germany. They went to a meeting, supposed to talk about like logistics or moving or getting out of the area or whatever.

And then they rounded everyone up and they took 'em away. And then they put the Ben Cast Chambers. So I mean like really it resonates with all of those feelings 'cause kids are really vulnerable. You're then taking something like a graduation and making it something highly vulnerable. You may be thinking this is a brilliant place to target these individuals.

'cause there'll be this audience there, but you're also then creating trauma and enemies and trauma and like you are being a terror. This is terrorism. How is that? 'cause you don't have, because people do not feel safe. So even people who are legally with it, legally within the United States, people who are documented within the United States, community

Dr. Alexis: members

Alex: then feel highly vulnerable to be in those spaces on top of that.

Because then they have to prove you. 'cause you don't have, you don't have any jurisdiction. There's no due process. There's no nothing there. Stealing people and they've made

Dr. Alexis: mistakes along the way

Alex: and deported people to Yep.

Dr. Alexis: And detained and deported. Yep. US citizens, which is just like absurd to me.

Alex: Yep.

So with that in mind, you now have made vulnerable populations even more vulnerable and people who should not feel as vulnerable, even more vulnerable and just, it's a mess. And now there you are targeting children like a vulture, like a,

Dr. Alexis: or targeting the parents of children.

Alex: Yeah.

You're talking about rounding up criminals. Okay? But these are parents showing up to children's graduation at a elementary school. I don't really think of those people as highly criminogenic,

Dr. Alexis: eh,

Alex: that is not my target.

Dr. Alexis: Eh?

Alex: The doesn't make sense.

Dr. Alexis: Response that I hear from people who are praising these ICE raids is that argument that, you know, they're just detaining and deporting murderers and rapists and human traffickers and then, and they're confused about who they're labeling as the Democrats wanting to protect.

Murderers and traffickers and therapists and their perception of this reaction that people who are empathizing with people who are being deported in these communities is so minimized to think that's really, so you think that's really what people are upset about That, that they're detaining and deporting criminals.

That's not what, that's not what the issue is. Everyone wants safety in their communities. Yeah. You know, people want justice.

Yeah.

Dr. Alexis: What people, and what you'll see from some other videos, the psychological disconnect is that people aren't upset because criminals are, are being detained and deported.

They're getting upset because there's a lack of human. General human rights,

Alex: decency,

Dr. Alexis: dignity, due process and democracy and

Alex: anything else that we safety and put these things on. So even if they don't have the same civil, if even if it's under civil proceedings and they do not have the same procedures, criminal proceedings, the fact that they don't follow through with what everybody thinks of as criminal proceedings for something that looks criminal.

Yeah. There are so many ways that ICE could make this less. Traumatic for both themselves and everyone else around them. Yeah. And they just drop the ball. And for the police who have

Dr. Alexis: to pick up out for them everything. If you were now for the National Guard Yep. Now for the freaking Marines. Yep. You're you because you are terrible.

You're so sloppy. Yeah. And incapable and incompetent of understanding what your career is. That now we have to get the Marines involved, like how bad of an organization. You have to be to f*** up. So really hard. And that is not a reflection of the community who's having a natural trauma response to your involvement.

Yeah. In their communities. You know, people even like to say that under Obama's years that there were more deportations than under Republican years.

Alex: And look at their due process. And if you look at their process, it's much different.

Dr. Alexis: And yet there was no. Backlash or protests or you know, community wide.

And I'm sure he screwed up too.

Alex: I'm sure there are screw ups there too. Yeah, this is no very little oversight compared to everything else. So as

Dr. Alexis: much as people may think it is, it's not necessarily the left or right thing or political thing. It's a basic human rights and, and justice and legal system, democracy thing.

Alex: I'm just thinking of organizational efficiency even.

Dr. Alexis: Yeah, even just organization. And the thing is that like they all know. How to properly do things in communities. They all have. Yep. They all have psychologists involved in their training and procedures and policies. They may not '

Alex: cause they don't have the same, no.

Well, 'cause they, they hire people to go into

Dr. Alexis: military. Does National Guard does police do and so we all know, or you all have the information available to you on how to effectively intervene. Mm-hmm. In a community to deescalate versus escalate.

Alex: Yeah. And everything they do is

Dr. Alexis: to really ensure public safety versus traumatize people with psychological warfare.

Alex: And create and create fear. Adversarial.

Dr. Alexis: Yes.

Alex: Like it's, everything they do is then adversarial in nature, which is really dangerous in so many ways.

Dr. Alexis: And it doesn't need to be

Alex: stuff, but for them. For the people. For them, for, there was an officer got hit by a rock and I'm like, yeah. I'm like. Seriously. Don't be there for that.

That's not, I'm sorry, officers. Don't be there for that because again, that's not your job to do that thing to then protect this civil branch of the government that's actually doing something fairly toxic. Don't.

Dr. Alexis: And so the big question is that like it, are these, the onset of the ICE raids that caused this snowball effect?

Second shift? Yeah. Or this domino effect it. Is that onset of those ICE raids, was that really for public safety? And it just so happens that all of these criminals, murderers, and rapist and human traffickers were working at the same company or all those criminal, it isn't ice raid truly about public safety or is it that psychological warfare and trying to exert this power and control and fear and terror over.

Communities. Yeah. Yeah. Because if it really was about public safety, things wouldn't have gone so bad. Where communities are terrified. Yeah. And trying to pretend one another. So let's hear what other people have to say about this as well. Big fan of this. TikTok influencer, I believe they're also on Instagram.

Yeah. So we'll go over who they are and how you could find them.

It's Sunday morning, and here's what we know about what's happening in LA right now. Over the last several days, the people of Los Angeles have been resisting ICE kidnappings, and I'm calling it kidnappings because. We don't know who these people are with masks on and inconsistent uniforms.

Half the folks who are shaking down the people of Los Angeles don't even have badges. I'm not willing to normalize what's happening there by reporting on it and saying, these are ICE agents because I don't know who they are. You don't know who they are. Again, they're masked. They are not badged. And they have inconsistent uniforms with what we have come to expect from Border Patrol ICE, or the LAPD.

Now, if you remember from when I worked at the LA Times, we reported extensively on the corruption that is in the Los Angeles Police Department, and especially the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department. So I have no friend of theirs, but even they were refusing to aid these ice kidnappers in their mission.

And even though things got very intense last night, the sheriff's department is saying that only one person was arrested. There were two fires that were put out, but there is no report of looting. No looting, no rioting, no looting.

Dr. Alexis: Even to today,

United States saying that he's gonna send in the National Guard.

It was even threatening to send an active duty Marines from Camp Pendleton to tamp down on what he was calling rioting and looting. While he was hanging out at the UFC fight last night, he thanked the National Guard for tamping down the rioters and looters, though the mayor of Los Angeles says that the National Guard actually never showed up last night.

And now communications from the White House say, well, the National Guard will be there in the next 24 hours though

Dr. Alexis: The LA, And so what I appreciated about what this creator referenced was the kidnapping aspect

Alex: of it. 'cause if you're not identifying yourself as an officer. And you have no, that you don't know.

How do you prove it?

Dr. Alexis: Yeah. Uh, and so if you could talk about from a psychological, sociological, pro perspective of what that might be like for people,

well,

Dr. Alexis: in their communities where there are these authority figures.

Alex: Well, that's the thing. Like you look at any film, tv, TV, film, and historically we, we recreate this over and over again, these.

Unidentified people are always seen as like an unidentified, like officers, whatever, who kidnapper people or pick people up, black bag them, all these other things that are seen as the villains. These are always the villains. They are never the heroes. So to be very clear, like it triggers this strong schema in most people in around unidentified individuals, kidnapping or taking off the streets just like they would any other terrorist criminal organization or whatever else.

So with that in mind, you could look for V for Vendetta if you want. That's a good example of. Finger men, they call 'em finger men because they point to me, disappear. There's all these other things there like that. Discuss this, or look at this as this authoritarian figure that has no accountability. And because they have no accountability, because they don't longer, they don't have a face, they don't have a badge, they don't have a presence, they don't have a body can.

There is no truth around that. And even now, like we want our officers to be held accountable because they have a terrifying job. And they can make mistakes and we don't want them to make mistakes, but we want them accountable when they do. So body cam footage is a normal thing now. Officers looking at, you know, badge, everything else there, badge numbers are accessible now or more accessible.

Like these things need to be clear for a due process and it helps psychologically for safety.

Yes,

Alex: and sociologically, if you look at history, anyone who's not identified. Again, goes back to the bad guys. These are people who are either considered spies or other types of like scary things. I didn't even

Dr. Alexis: thinking of Star Wars, who are the bad guys and those white

Alex: storm troopers?

Yes.

Dr. Alexis: Their faces like they're the bad guys. Arely covered. They don't have any identification on 'em, do they? I think. And then who are the good guy?

Alex: Good guys. You can see how their faces,

Dr. Alexis: right.

Alex: You see exactly who they are. They're, I'm kinda

Dr. Alexis: taking it from like a media perspective, surprisingly.

Alex: I mean, that's where, I mean, we do this a lot where anytime you have any type of totalitarian authoritarian government, I don't like using the word fascist government because people think the word fascist is wrong, but like anytime that you have this totalitarian or authoritarian government and they have impunity to just do what they want.

There is a problem with that and we as people in everyday life are terrified of that. Especially I would say, especially in America because it challenges different aspects of that. So I think of a lot of these things are dredging up a lot of feelings from especially Angelinos in around that, but also in around like what it looks like to then fight that.

Dr. Alexis: And the reality is that like they're asking a lot of. A lot from the general public. They're asking them, trust me, I am a, an agent, an officer. I have this authority. Trust that now trust that I have identified and detained the correct person. Trust that this person that I've identified and detained is a criminal and trust that.

I will be taking them to the appropriate detention center where they will get processed. And then what we had a lot of us don't even realize is that even under the best circumstances, being processed through ICE doesn't offer you a lot.

Alex: And on top of that, what do you think about this? When now they've screwed up that and have deported people or held people who are not criminals?

Yeah. Who are not, who are actually US citizens. Or at least on a, you know, or here in documented, there, there goes your trust.

Dr. Alexis: Yeah. And so, so it, like you're asking us to trust you on these, on four different levels. In the heat of this moment as

Alex: you're combining them. But

Dr. Alexis: yes, in the heat of this moment, we're just observing this stranger with this mask unidentified in these like weird clothes when we also have like weird militia guys running around playing.

Alex: They look very similar to Proud Boys. I mean, yeah, like

Dr. Alexis: playing military or just, yeah. And yet under all these circumstances, we're supposed to like trust. All, all of these factors and then especially now while knowing that even if all of that is true or you're, you are who you're from, the agency that you say you're from, and that you got the right person off.

Even if you believe that in that moment, we could later find out that all of that is wrong. Yeah. And has been wrong. Yep. And so why should communities trust you?

Alex: Right. They shouldn't. I believe you ever earned that trust.

Dr. Alexis: And so the, and you trade

Alex: that trust.

Dr. Alexis: So the person that, that we just heard from, use us

Alex: under the desk news under

Dr. Alexis: So good.

This person's wonderful. All the places that you can find them. YouTube, Substack and Instagram. Yeah. And TikTok.

Alex: And if you don't know who, they're awesome. Yeah.

Dr. Alexis: They, what I appreciate about this creator is that when they're reporting the news, uh, typically in a like really cozy spot, sometimes under a desk, where they, in this one I couldn't, no.

Um, and it's not always,

Alex: they're almost,

Dr. Alexis: and, and they talk very calmly and they like ease you into the news and let you know what's what,

Alex: and they're bite size it.

Dr. Alexis: Yeah. If you're interested in, in, in this person. I think that was like the most. Kind of like personal information that they've shared on one of their like news posts.

Alex: They talk about themselves every now and then. Yeah. About what they've done in the past or whether, usually focus more

Dr. Alexis: on what's what. But from a journalist, from a journalistic perspective, that's something that you don't usually get in the news is that personal angle and what their beliefs are about, like the police, for example.

Alex: Well, that was a previous investigator report to that.

So let me get this straight. Y'all really thought you were gonna push LA around. This is where tomboy women like to Purina played rebellion for 1785 to push the colonizers and their missions off per land. This is where the first Chinatown built by Chinese Americans is 18.

Chinese men and boys were lynched here in 1871 and they still chose to rebuild. Oh, this is hold to the LA garment strikes in the 1930s. Thousands of garment workers, mostly Latinas. Walked outta shop for downtown Lake for 26 days. They got a 40 hour work week at airplane. That is where the suit suit rebellion was.

White sailors, the soldiers attacked Chicano youth in 1943. They their suits right off their backs, but you better believe they back. And blacks, Filipinos were right there. Swing with 'em. This is where the Watts Rebellion rage for six days. This police wanna harass black folk. 1965, we cost $40 million in damage to the neighborhood.

And Bill Eugene Village, Martin Luther King, Jr. Hospital, Charles Drew University. All at its ashes. They sent down 14,000 National Guard troops for that. This ain't on first Rodeo. This is LA Home to Will. The Black Panther party's most active chapters. They created the first SWAT team in America to raid their office.

They killed chapter leaders at UCLA. They didn't stop organizing. Many of them went underground. Weather. East LA walkouts happened in 1968. Thousands of students walked outta class foot. Chicano representation in education. Black study started at San Francisco State in 68, but Chicano study started at Cal State LA in 69.

It is out. We, the American Indian Movement, aim occupied the Bureau of Indian Affairs in downtown fact he 72, they demanded sovereignty and forced treaties, their land better. This is la. When the Feds cuff funded the AIDS programs, the queer community not only stepped in to take care of it, they took direct action act.

The AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power Storm, the Federal Drug Administration's LA office, because why is the FDA gonna keep delaying approvals for AIDS drugs while all these people out here dying, they shut down WIL Boulevard to protest healthcare and accessibility. They held die-ins and mass protests at Catholic churches, the CDC, the pharmaceutical giants.

I mean, this is really la. We've always been too much for the world. We have never backed out of a fight. LA riots didn't have to report hell. For freedom. It's true. We might not always get along, but we know how to protect one another. This is la

Dr. Alexis: woo woo. Chills again, but this time in a good way. It's like that we've had to fight so much.

Yeah. In LA or as a community or a cultural groups and it, there's also a sense of pride. Yeah. That comes with standing up for yourself and for your rights. It sucks that it has to be done. It'd be nice if we had the privilege not to have to do that kind of stuff and not to have our clothes ripped off of our bodies because it's a style of our culture, our group.

That is absurd.

Alex: Zuzu riots.

Dr. Alexis: I know my parents made me go up to a musical about Zuzu riots when I was like, Hey, I did not understand it. I was like, why am I watching these people in these weirdos? Like, why is this a thing?

Alex: Hey Chuco,

Dr. Alexis: I get it now. Really? Yeah. What did you think about

Alex: this is why you're going to see responses from.

The people of Los Angeles specifically regarding these issues. This is steeped in a functional paradigm. So you are in history. In history, so in generation in this you think of, and so as I was watching these things kinda unfurl, I kept thinking of Rodney King, all the riots and things like that. And I like how we called the Watts Rebellion.

Oof. It's so much better. Its rebellion. Like you, I mean, I think of these things regularly when it comes to the history of Los Angeles and when it comes to how. People view themselves within the context of rights. This is a place of rights. Well, Los Angeles is a place of rights. So that's the identity that a whole DC very similarly a place of rights.

Yeah. So like folks of DC you get busy, you have your laundry list

Dr. Alexis: of things that you all Washingtonians have had to. Fight through and fight for.

Alex: Yep. And as it, and, and

Dr. Alexis: continue to fight for and

Alex: as people on what feels like the front lines of things, regardless of whether or not you feel like you have a, a dog in the fight, you're still there.

So it's interesting because there, I think there are certain places and spaces that have this memory. This sociological dynamic really kicks in and makes this a hotbed, makes Los Angeles, makes DC, makes places like Chicago or Detroit, a likely hotbed of these kind of reactions.

Yeah,

Alex: and it could, I mean, and I don't mean this in a bad way, this is just a reaction.

A response. It's a response

Dr. Alexis: just like to anything else. And that's part of the consideration when we're looking at like, how do we effectively intervene in something? Yeah. You need to know the community that, that you are intervening in. Understand their history, their triggers, their traumas. Yep. That and the understanding that's been passed down for generations.

So when we talked about building trust, I was just talking about it like superficial here and now. I need you to trust all these things, but we're taught you. But that's not where trust comes from. Trust is built over generations. And so now we're asking like in general, who has trust for even authority figures for law enforcement, for,

Alex: it's really damaged that trust

Dr. Alexis: since the beginning of the United States.

Yep. That trust has been broken countless times, and so when you're walking into a community or working with people, it's not a fresh, it's not a blank

Alex: start. You don't have the plain slate.

Dr. Alexis: No, and that's. Psychologically our means of survival. You could even think about it, sociologically or the p we supposed physiologically, theologically.

That's what I'm, um, yes. To help me say words. That's why storytelling is so important.

Alex: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Alexis: Even before we're able to write things down and document history, we were telling story passed down from generation to teach the next generation. About our history and about our challenges and about our accomplishments.

Who to trust, who not to trust.

Alex: Yeah.

Dr. Alexis: And that's what you're seeing play out here in la. So when you're looking at the news and you're seeing people have this strong reaction to this type of intervention, I don't even wanna with some more appropriate word for that, to these ice raids. It's steeped in history and experience from having that type of conflict.

Undo conflict and violence. Yeah, from authority figures.

Alex: It's just in the past it's such a lack of thought. You, not even like foresight, just a lack of thought. Like it's like running up to some person who is,

Dr. Alexis: it's the willful ignorance for pain.

Alex: Yeah. Yeah. It's so you're like, hey. You've been traumatized by dogs as you were attacked by dogs growing up and now I'm gonna run up to you and attack you with, and attack you with a dog.

You're like, now I wanna bring this dog here and make sure that and, but I'm a good guy. And you're like, S dog all on you. It's just, it's, I don't know if that analogy goes, but still it just makes no sense to me. Choice. Took a look at another one.

Dr. Alexis: Let us know what you think about any of the videos you shared, any of the things we've said.

Agree, disagree. Hate what we're talking about today. Just let us know.

ICE and LA have gone to war with ice, reportedly starting it by using military style force against protestors, which led to even more protestors showing up, right? Yesterday they conducted multiple sweeps around la, which was the starting point for the clashes with ice, wearing camouflage military tactical gear with military style rifles, and there were riot in it.

Emaps. They also had their faces covered with no name tags or badge numbers. The report saying they began throwing flash bangs, firing shotguns, shooting non-lethal of protesters, spraying pepper spray, and firing tons of tear gas. The LAPD then stepped in and declared the protest unlawful and began to disperse it.

Right? And this is now the fourth city this week that ICE has encountered resistance from the people. Though it's unclear how much of the resistance is about deportations and how much of it is about ICE acting like an occupying military force. Right. And this is the MRAPs that ICE is using. They were designed for Iraq and Afghanistan.

And the US military actually had to change how they use them because they found that locals often saw their presence as being very oppressive and that they instigated conflict. And you know, you're certainly seeing the same reaction here in the US and the anonymity of these agents. It's only seeming to escalate.

But with that, you had the Acting ICE Director releasing a video today telling those criticizing ice that he's demanding that they stop. But you also have a lot of people saying that if ICE got rid of the masks, they put their name tags back on and they dusted off the SUVs that people would go back to ignoring them.

But for now, let me know your thoughts and follow and share add. Philip DeFranco, the

Dr. Alexis: dad who covers the news for you daily deep dives on YouTube as well. Cool.

There you go.

Dr. Alexis: So I appreciate the way that, that they put all of that together. That's a lot to, to navigate in a short. What were,

Alex: what were your thoughts?

If you show a presence, if you follow rule of law, if you follow like what the law looks like to everyone, that's the thing. Like

Dr. Alexis: you're coming in in a very hot and absurd way.

Alex: Yeah.

Dr. Alexis: What are you doing? What I mean? Yeah. You would have to expect that there would be a strong reaction to something like it would be odd if there wasn't a strong reaction.

Yeah. It's from bystanders, it's, and community members. It's so dumb. It is so dumb coming in hot and heavy military style like that. You're

Alex: so dumb and dangerous.

Dr. Alexis: Ripping people from their,

Alex: yeah,

Dr. Alexis: from their place of employment or eighties, wherever that,

Alex: I don't know what the criteria is for making these decisions, but whoever's in charge is just dangerous.

Because they're just dangerous. Because I think about every officer, every, I don't even know if they're technically officers, but like every person they're trying to be as a part of ICE is in danger because they're making decisions that are so categorically stupid that it puts them in danger. Really, just think about it from this perspective.

If I wanted to succeed in doing these things, this is the last way I would do it, because now you're looking like a military occupying force who's going through unchecked. Like you would and say like how we picture Afghanistan, how we picture the Middle East, how we picture them, like going through and raiding different villages.

You are doing that on American soil to Americans because they're not, you can't prove that these people are anything but Americans. How do you think people are going to wreck? This is dumb

Dr. Alexis: to people's, neighbors and colleagues. And

Alex: so if you go and try and pick up my neighbor. I'm probably gonna be pretty pissed about it, especially when I think you're kidnapping him.

'cause you do not identify yourself as a person who actually is a officer law or any authority.

Dr. Alexis: And I mean, even if you wanna like side on on the safety of the ice agents. Even on the safety of the police officers who then have to respond to your, that you've created and then to the safety of the National Guard and the safety now of our Marines.

Don't you care about that? Don't you care about them? Because if you did. Then you would be taking every measure possible to ensure that you're deescalating, not escalating. Yeah. Any of this. Lemme do

Alex: that again. And it's totally little alone.

Dr. Alexis: Even caring about the community members

Alex: to a point where it's almost like farcical, like you've made such a total misstep that it's almost seems like you did this.

It's so fucking dangerous on purpose. I don't know. I just, it's so dumb. I'm not conspiratorial in that way, but like, it's just so dumb.

Dr. Alexis: Well, again, like they know what instigates 'em. They know. Yeah. What deescalates, I mean, it's just science at this point. Like we have best practices available and you're just willfully choosing not to do that and do everything in the most dangerous, threatening way possible.

Because you're trying to

Alex: flex.

Dr. Alexis: Yeah, to flex this small energy. Freud turning in his grave right now. It's

Alex: like, this is too dumb. Obvious. Or it gives you a thumb up. It says small little

energy. Well,

Dr. Alexis: well, how obvious. Yeah. End on

this. You're going back to a country you never been to. Damn. You come here. Oh, it's okay, officer.

I'm a US citizen. I don't give a damn, but sir, I have legal status. I didn't ask, but I'm a law abiding. Not my problem buddy. But I'm serving the military. That's good for you. I'm mean you. Hey, what's up guys? I wanted to come on here, number one as a Latino to make sure that you guys are being safe. Mind you, they're detaining, even American citizens.

So best belief, they might detain you too. So be careful out there. Take care of yourselves. Mind you, they're provoking everyone so that we riot to make immigrants look violent. They're doing it on purpose. Secondly, as a Christian myself, if you believe in God and this situation doesn't affect you, remember that the Bible teaches us to give refuge to those seeking it to welcome in strangers.

To help foreigners that share your land. Okay. Not if they have legal status. The Bible never cared about that, right? So everyone, please be careful. Be safe. Thank God bless

Dr. Alexis: brought in religion. Thank you. Sure. I was raised Catholic and I mean, we played that out every Christmas. You know, we played out Mary and Joseph looking for seeking shelter for the birth of Jesus and the whole I.

Message around it was to be welcoming

Alex: to all and to house. They end up in a barn

Dr. Alexis: that was their accommodations. Yes. So at the very least,

Alex: barn,

Dr. Alexis: peacock, something

Alex: savior is a bar. That's rough. That, yeah. So I mean, let's be, let's actually care for people. I mean, let's just be humane and just keep that in mind.

I mean, that's not, it doesn't hurt you directly if it doesn't. If that doesn't, dynamic, doesn't affect you directly. I think the important part of that is to understand, and I always go to the hangman, the poem, the Hangman. They came for this and that didn't say anything. They came for it. You know, blah, blah, blah.

Dr. Alexis: You will say the poem,

Alex: it's a, it's 10 minutes long. Okay, we'll post it. The Hangman is a good poem. Read the hangman. But it's like they came for these people and I didn't say anything and then they came for me. And I mean, that's what's interesting. You're seeing all these people who. They're like, oh, but I did this because of this reason, and now they came for them and they're really upset.

So hangman, it's not new, it's an old poem. Instagram is Geo Castle, who seems

Dr. Alexis: to do funny skits on the norm. Add a little P as had to do a little, just let go. Had to turn a bit and do a little hearsay because of these circumstances that we're living in with all this said, how to level up,

Alex: level up, learn things.

Historically learn things. I mean, legally

Dr. Alexis: I want to be real with you all and validate the experiences of trauma that you are actively going through right now.

Alex: Yeah.

Dr. Alexis: Uh, as a community, even as bystanders.

Alex: Well, there's a lot of things seeing that by vicarious trauma,

Dr. Alexis: and this is well documented, this isn't my bias, bullshit 'cause I care about people.

This is just the scientific truth. Is that what is happening? Is actively causing trauma in these communities with these kids, with the parents with. You know, the adults, every, everyone in these

Alex: communities and, and by watching it, you are then having that trickle down effect was more traumatic.

Dr. Alexis: And even by watching the news, seeing it on social media.

Alex: We're just talking about this,

Dr. Alexis: watching our show right now, listening to our show right now, hearing the voices that we're sharing with you, you could also experience vicarious trauma through that as well.

Alex: Yeah.

Dr. Alexis: Especially if you are a caring, empathetic, even analytical. Yeah, person can get something like this.

Yes. And so with that said, taking extra care of yourself and your loved ones, being extra patient, showing each other grace and compassion, as you all are going through this, it's reminding me like when LA went through the wildfires earlier this year, it was a whole community impact, a whole community trauma.

We're going through it again in la. And so take care of one another, obviously,

Alex: but I mean it also look at it breaks and then, but also then look for the times, places, spaces that it actually is bringing people together. If you're just stuck in this sensationalistic conception of Phil of news, you're not seeing the all, the whole thing, the whole picture.

There is beautiful pictures of people coming together. It was also my favorite one was the taco stand on the 1 0 1 where people are actually eating tacos and they're feeding people tacos. Well. Protesting and holding up those things. So you know what? Even seeing the restaurant

Dr. Alexis: owners helped get pepper spray outta sheriff's eyes because sheriffs were there.

They somehow got pepper spray in their eyes. They went into one of the local restaurants and the servers there who all appear to be people of color or they're helping, helping the sheriff's who was also a person of color. Navigate all this. And I mention people's ethnicity or race because we are the communities who are being.

Targeted.

Alex: Yeah. You don't see this in,

Dr. Alexis: even though there are, we could even look up the stats. So many other white people who've overstayed their visas student travel or have even come in un undocumented, are they being rated? Mm-hmm. Are their communities being created

Alex: because they're not criminals?

Because

Dr. Alexis: all the criminals work together and go to the same church and the same schools and, yeah. Go to their kids, but they may also be criminals. So take care of each other of your communities. Engage with your support systems. Talk this out. Go to therapy.

Alex: Play two things that make you bring you some joy,

Dr. Alexis: radical joy, trying to find ways to experience pleasure and fun like pride.

Pride was a riot.

Alex: Pride was a riot.

Dr. Alexis: And now pre. And we keep on having fun and we keep on celebrating. Pride

Alex: isn't. Pride is a parade that is a manifestation of resistance. It's not. It's not just a parade. Correct? It is.

Dr. Alexis: Or an opportunity for an idea. Companies to market there.

Alex: Rainbow colored.

Dr. Alexis: So take care of yourselves and we'll see you again next week.

Send us the weird you find online. Send it to.

Alex: You're like, I'm done. Send us this stuff. Send us this stuff. We'll talk about it. Whether or not it's therapy or trash.

Dr. Alexis: Send us the weirdest advice cunt. And you've seen, or even just people like trying to about,

Alex: yeah.

Dr. Alexis: Or role model.

Alex: Oh, don't tell. Like coaches and creators to start sending us stuff to tell that we could weigh in.

Whether or not they're saying therapeutic trash things.

Dr. Alexis: Send us your wellness influencer stuff. Those are fun.

Alex: Oh God.

Dr. Alexis: And we'll let you know. If you need some extra self-care and support meditations, sleep stories, sleep app, I'm on the Aura Health app. Calms also a good one.

Alex: Aura is awesome.

Dr. Alexis: There is also the meditation app.

Take some time for yourself today.

Alex: Easy. It's pretty Aura, the app

Dr. Alexis: You have a guest pass from me to access the Aura Health app. And if you are in need of any extra support for your workplace, your community, yourselves, your family, you could find us at witandreason.com and of course here, brain or Shine all day.

Alex: No sleep. No sleep,

Dr. Alexis: joy, whatever's going on. We're here to talk with

Alex: and Rascals too,

Dr. Alexis: And rascals

Alex: make a big mess.

Dr. Alexis: Until next week.

Alex: Thank you to our DC radio producers, Jessica Sturgis and Shane Lewis, for their help in making this episode possible. For more mental health information, visit our website witandreason.com.

Don't forget to follow, like, and share our mental health content on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. Blue Sky, LinkedIn and YouTube @witandreason

Dr. Alexis: Your engagement with our content online supports us and our show in more ways than you can possibly imagine.

Alex: Stay informed and take care of your mental health.

Dr. Alexis: Let's keep the conversation going.

 
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